firewalkjen wrote:

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I totally agree with you on everyone working together on better shows.. Quality over quantity..  There are too many cliques around here too, it sometimes feels like I'm in high school all over again..

I have no real issues with any promoters though, I respect anyone who's trying to do something here in Milwaukee, but we really do need to help each other out more...

We give bands the option to sell tickets, its not a requirement. Alot of bands we have worked with liked the idea. 

There are alot of promoters in Milwaukee.. Alot of hypocrisy going on too.. But for me, no matter how many shows flop or what not, I'm really determined to not give up on the scene.. I know alot of people who have, but metal is my passion in life and I plan to keep trying to help...

Most of the "hypocrisy" you constantly bring up stems from you, and most of these new cliques are a by product of you and your defamation of certain individuals and business. Surprisingly you have not been sued. It's this very nonsesne you continuosly cry about that drives people to other areas for shows and support. Trying to help who exactly? Yourself?

Being in a band and booking shows here and there in the past I can see a few different perspectives...

First off, if you are a promoter and you are not able to cover costs, then don't book a show...simple as that...In the past, I have coughed up money and took a loss because I kept my word...I negotiated with the bands prior, so it was not a big loss, but a loss is a loss...

Now on the playing perspective, we played the Incantation shows...While Milwaukee was fun, I understand that it was not as successful as it should of been...Promises were kept however and that goes miles for me...

At any rate, and not to make anyone feel bad, but the Chicago show and the Michigan show that weekend went really well. Not all Chicago shows go over well and there are usually 20 shows on a given night, so it is hard to make the comparison...The Michigan show was a 2 day fest on an Apple Orchard in the middle of bum**** nowhere with a mix of bands...and that went well...

The problem I see with the Milwaukee area is a few things...it is close to Chicago...if a band is playing Chicago one night and Milwaukee the next, it is doubtful that Chicago folks are going to make the trek...same goes with Milwaukee folks...

The other thing I seen is the difference in venues...For example, Cardiac has done quite a few shows in the area and we have never played the same place twice...That is a problem...there is no established place to be...

Finally, as far as promotion, I see quite a few people there doing different things which conflict with everything...Everyone needs to come together and share the same goals. Remember, a lot of shows is not necessarily a good thing...Focus on a few good ones to get built up...

Oh, and on pay to play...if I am ever asked to sell tickets, I will tell the promoter to shove em up their ass sideways...I have been playing in bands over 20 years now and have been against that practice since I started... :)

Just my 2 cents...

Idealistically... if you are going to pay to play, why not just pool your money with the other bands and do the show sans promoter?
And it just comes off as pyramid scheme,because it is.  And it also allows bands who dont deserve to play shows[ex. most of the metalfest side stages] on shows while bands who are better/more deserving but dont happen to have money to pay up front for something to be left out in the cold and not to into the scene. So they then go away, and the crap bands who think that they can buy their way places keep paying their way onto shows. Its seriously no good...

And that is Shamaatae from Arckanum. \****ing perfect Black Metal.

firewalkjen wrote:

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First off let me say HORNS HIGH to all the true metalheads out there. I salute you all.
BUT, WHERE ARE YOU HIDING????  DAMN!! I remember growing up and every weekend there was a killer local metal show and they would be packed to the gills no matter who was playing. People were hungry for the music, they went out to support the scene and what a KILLER scene it was..  Everyone seems to have there own opinions on what killed it. 

The economy
A former metal promoter who shall remain nameless, but we all know his name
The internet
EMO music

etc, etc...

I'm  no longer wracking my brain trying to figure out why, that is irrelevant. What I need to figure out is how we bring it back. I'm confused as to how there were only 30 people at INCANTATION!! WTF?? REALLY?? What's the problem everyone? Please help me out here. Heshmedia and FireWalk really broke our backs for that show, trying to bring you metalheads out there a brutal show, but 3/4 of the people who were soo stoked about it, mysteriously were no where to be found.. Something has got to change here in good ol Milwaukee.   Where is the love?? We here at FireWalk and Heshmedia are completely passionate about metal, we live and breathe it, we support and take care of our local bands as best as we can with what we have. What else do we have to do?? We want Heshfest to be the next great Milwaukee metalfest, but we need the support of the fans and bands to make that a reality.
And as far as Heshfest goes. I'm speaking for myself here, but I know others agree. I'm so tired of bands with Rockstar complexes. The signed bands that have toured the world that we have worked with are more flexible than some of our local bands.  Now please don't get me wrong, this is a very small percentage of bands here, but I'm just going to put it out there and at this point I no longer truelly care if I offend anyone. The only way we can make this scene great again is if we all work together. And if you are walking around with a huge ego like you're better than everyone else, you're going to get trampled when the true bands,fans, supporters take this scene by storm.  There are some amazing bands in Wisconsin, bands that are out there supporting, going to other shows to show the love, but there are some who expect all the work to be done by everyone else.  Don't expect a big crowd of people at your shows if you're never out supporting other people's shows. And don't whine when you don't draw knowing you didn't promote your show yourself because you expected the booker/promoter to do all the work. 
I know bands hate to pay to play, and some bands won't period, but sometimes I wonder do they really want to succeed? You don't think that every major metal band out there has paid to play early on in their carreers at some point? I honestly don't think people realize what all goes into putting on a big show, how much money is involved. And we are always making it worth their while by giving them enough tickets to make MORE than they paid for, but people still have issues with it. Maybe it's laziness, you don't feel like promoting your own show and going out and selling your tickets, or maybe it's that you don't think you can sell enough..  Whatever the case may be, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. We are trying to give bands the opportunity to share the stage with well established, successful bands and if you don't like the terms. there are plenty of hungry bands out there who will accept them.
And to all you true metal fans out there, come out, come out wherever you are!
Where are you hiding?? Why is it that the only shows that are packed full are shows at the Rave? Please help us help you!! Let us know why you aren't coming to the shows? What's making you stay away. We need you, we need your support!!

Well I think that's enough ranting for now. BUT I would love everyone's opinion, good or bad and I will truelly appreciate any imput on bands people would like to see in Milwaukee!!


HORNS HIGH!!

 

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If i may...

First, the idea of pay to play is complete garbage. If thats how you have to make money to put on a show then you shouldn't be putting the show on. Period. If a band is big enough to possibly make a show pay to play worthy then they should be draw enough alone to make their guarantee.And if there is a worry about this than maybe they shouldn't get as much. Some bands who have "made it" may have taken this route for sure, but i can assure you none of them would be pro that model. That's ponzi/Bernie Madoff/pyramid scheme bull**** to no end, and finding bands that will do that opens you up to lesser quality bands playing the shows and the touring bands becoming discouraged by the shows. I know when i/we are on tour and we play with bands that are awful but draw kids, its usually a pretty disheartening experience. Most bands would rather play with other bands they can be into rather than play with bands fresh out of their 4th place finish at their high school battle of the bands willing to pay to play.

As for the Incantation show... It was a bummer it wasn't successful. I went and was kinda let down by the attendance and just the indifference by the people who were at the show. But also, didn't 2 of the locals on the Incantation show also play the heshfest thing that was a weekend earlier? Booking the same bands to play every show is a way for shows to fail. And it seems you always have the same bands playing your shows. Also, how things are now,if you have shows all the time, it kinda over saturates. People,from my experience setting up shows,tend to not frequent shows as much, and are sporadic about what they do go to. Having stuff all the time makes it so you can have an "I'll catch it next time" attitide. And the fact it was 21+ worked against you. I myself try to do shows at all ages spaces, cuz the death/black/metal is pretty much music for teens. And grown ups looking to still be teens.[I fall into that category for sure.]

Also having big events close together makes so you have to pick and choose which show you want to go to. And especially when they are similar styled events.

And, and i mean no offense by this, your fliers are kinda beh looking. Everything looks the same and the art is kinda muddled. And besides at your store, i didnt see one anywhere else. Alot of the dudes i know who live in Riverwest who waaaay dig on metal didnt know the show was going on. And we spin Onward to Golgotha rather frequently at our metal hangout nights.Online fliers only go so far, especially if people aren't into the locals playing the show. Not saying that you shouldn't help your friends out, but expanding outside your usual borders may help you with bigger shows. And if any band,local or whatnot, has an attitude about how things are, they shouldn't get booked. This is a hobby, even if you want to "make it", and you should appreciate what people do for you. And if they don't, then they don't deserve help.

I do not begrudge you guys trying, and i definitely am impressed with your ambition. I have been going to metal shows in MKE consistently since 93 and went to MMF from 94 to 04 and i know how much fun and how awesome it was to have a more constant metal scene in Milwaukee. But at the same time, you cant get blood from a stone. If the economy/scene doesn't allow you to do bigger shows without losing a ton then maybe thats something to consider. Build a solid base of smaller,more manageable shows and grow from there.

And what does Emo have to do with anything honestly. I own a few actual "emo" records,which is a genre of music that is in no way related to metal, bands like sunny day real estate and 27 are emo bands that play lighter, more gentile sort of music that has nothing to do with metal. Metal ignorantly decided that was the word for everything not accepted in the parameters of metal. Emo has done nothing to hurt metal, in actuality it gave metal a punching bag. Which is a silly thing to need...

But once again...these are just my opinions.

Oh and I am Jason, i have a big beard and dreads and also set up metal shows in Milwaukee, albeit in a different way/different scene than you guys do. I hope the black metal fest at the Rave does better for you guys.

 

Hey Jen, long time no see.

I am right there with you. Back in the day when I was a part of the local Metal scene in L.A. It was huge. Either I was playing or out seeing local bands rather they be friends bands or just hanging with new bands to the scene. It was always a metal party night/ weekend. If I was in Milwaukee I would be out there with you. I would also be shopping at your store. Since the music stores here are next to gone. Back in the day we did many paid to play shows. We would eat most of the ticket costs most of the time. But it was all good.